سید ذیشان

محفلین
اس طرح بات بہت دور نکل جاتی ہے۔ ایک بندہ یا مثال کے طور پر ہٹلر، اس نے یہ سب کچھ مظالم کئے، مرتے وقت وہ کلمہ پڑھ کر مسلمان ہوتا ہے، سارے گناہ دھلوا کر جنت میں جائے گا۔ کیا یہ این آر او انصاف ہوگا؟
میرا خیال ہے کہ ہم کچھ زیادہ جنرل صورتحال سامنے رکھیں تو آسانی رہے گی، ورنہ صرف اسلام یا مسلمان کے نظریئے تک محدود رہے تو دھاگہ آج ہی بند ہو جائے گا :)

جنرل باتیں تو آپ وکیپیڈیا کے آرٹیکل میں دیکھ ہی سکتے ہیں۔ مسلمانوں میں بھی ہر ایک مکتبہ فکر کا اپنا اپنا فلسفہ ہے۔ اور بعض ایسے فلسفے بھی ہیں جب کے پیروکار آج موجود بھی نہیں ہیں۔ میرا ماننا یہی ہے کہ صرف عقل کی بنیاد پر الٰہیات سے متعلق موضوعات کو حل نہیں کیا جا سکتا ہے۔ اس پر اسلام اور قرآن سے مدد لینا ضروری ہے۔

امام علی کا توحید کے بارے میں ایک مشہور خطبہ ہے جو یہاں انگریزی میں پیسٹ کر رہا ہوں، اردو میں مجھے نیٹ پر نہیں ملا۔ اس میں ہماری اس گفتگو سے متعلق ایک جملہ ہے: . Forbidden is His delimitation (tahdid) to the penetrating acumen of sagacities, His description (takyif) to the piercing profundities of thought and His representation (taswir) to the searching probes of insight."

مکمل خطبہ درج ذیل ہے:

It was related by 'Ali ibn Musa Ar-Ridha’ (the eighth Imam) from the earlier Imams in succession that al-Husayn ibn 'Ali (the third Imam) spoke as follows: The Commander of the Faithful-upon whom be peace-addressed the people in the mosque at Kufa and said:

"Praise belongs to God, who did not originate from anything, nor did He bring what exists into being from anything.12 His beginninglessness is attested to by the temporality (huduth) of things, His power by the impotence with which He has branded them, and His everlastingness (dawam) by the annihilation (fana') which He has forced upon them. No place is empty of Him that He might be perceived through localization (ayniyyah), no object (shabah) is like Him that He might be described by quality (kayfiyyah), nor is He absent from anything that He might be known through situation (haythiyyah)."13

"He is distinct (muba'in) in attributes from all that He has originated, inaccessible to perception because of the changing essences He has created (in things),14 and outside of all domination (tasarruf) by changing states (halat) because of grandeur and tremendousness. Forbidden is His delimitation (tahdid) to the penetrating acumen of sagacities, His description (takyif) to the piercing profundities of thought and His representation (taswir) to the searching probes of insight."

"Because of His tremendousness places encompass Him not, because of His majesty measures guage Him not, and because of His grandeur standards judge Him not. Impossible is it for imaginations (awham) to fathom Him, understandings (afham) to comprehend Him or minds (adhhan) to imagine Him. Powers of reason (uqul) with lofty aspiration despair of contriving to comprehend Him, oceans of knowledge run dry without alluding to Him in depth,15 and the subtleties of disputants fall from loftiness to pettiness in describing His power."

"He is One (wahid), not in terms of number (adad); Everlasting (da'im), without duration (amad); Standing (qa'im), without supports (umud). He is not of a kind (jins) that (other) kinds should be on a par with Him, nor an object that objects should be similar to Him, nor like things that attributes should apply to Him. Powers of reason go astray in the waves of the current of perceiving Him, imaginations are bewildered at encompassing the mention of His beginninglessness, understandings are held back from becoming conscious of the description of His power, and minds are drowned in the depths of the heavens of His kingdom (malakut)."16

"He is Master over (giving) bounties, Inaccessible through Grandeur, and Sovereign over all things. Time (al-dahr) makes Him not old, nor does description encompass Him. Humbled before Him are the firmest of obduracies in the limits of their constancy, and submitted to Him are the most unshakeable of the cords in the extremity of their towering regions."1732

"Witness to His Lordship (rububiyyah) is the totality of kinds (al-ajnas, i.e. kinds of creatures), to His Power their incapacity, to His eternity (qidmah) their createdness (futur), and to His permanence (baqa') their passing into extinction (zawal). So they possess no place of refuge from His grasp (idrak) of them, no exit from His encompassing (ihatah) them, no way of veiling themselves from His enumeration (ihsa') of them and no way of avoiding His power over them.

Sufficient is the perfection of His making them18 as a sign (ayah), His compounding of their (natural) constitutions as a proof, the temporal origin (huduth) of their natures as (a reason for His) eternity, and the creation's laws governing them as a lesson.19 No limit is attributed to Him, no similitude struck for Him and nothing veiled from Him. High indeed is He exalted above the striking of similitudes and above created attributes!"

"And I testify that there is no god but He, having faith in His lordship and opposing whoso denies Him; and I testify that Muhammad is His servant and messenger, residing in the best lodging-place, having passed from the noblest of loins and immaculate wombs, extracted in lineage from the noblest of mines and in origin from the most excellent of plantations, and (derived) from the most inaccessible of summits and the most glorious roots, from the tree from which God fashioned His prophets and chose His trusted ones:20 (a tree) of excellent wood, harmonious stature, lofty branches, flourishing limbs, ripened fruit, (and) noble interior, implanted in generosity and cultivated in a sacred precinct.

There it put forth branches and fruit, became strong and unassailable, and then made him (the prophet Muhammad) tall and eminent, until God, the Mighty and Majestic, honored him with the Faithful Spirit,21 the Illuminating Light,22 and the Manifest Book.23 He subjected to him Buraq24 and the angels greeted him.25

By means of him He terrified the devils, overthrew the idols and the gods (who were) worshipped apart from Him. His prophet's Wont (sunnah) is integrity (rushd), his conduct (sirah) is justice and his decision is truth. He proclaimed that which was commanded by his Lord,26 and he delivered that with which he was charged27 until he made plain his mission through the profession of Unity and made manifest among the creatures that there is no god but God alone and that He has no associate; until His Oneness became pure and His lordship unmixed. God made manifest his argument through the profession of His Unity and He raised his degree with submission (al-islam). And God, the Mighty and Majestic, chose for His prophet what was with Him of repose, degree and means-upon him and upon his pure household be God's peace."

 

سید فصیح احمد

لائبریرین
آپ سب کا بہت شکریہ کیا خوبصورت بحث ہے ،، بہت سے سوالوں کے جواب حاصل ہو رہے ہیں !!

جنرل باتیں تو آپ وکیپیڈیا کے آرٹیکل میں دیکھ ہی سکتے ہیں۔ مسلمانوں میں بھی ہر ایک مکتبہ فکر کا اپنا اپنا فلسفہ ہے۔ اور بعض ایسے فلسفے بھی ہیں جب کے پیروکار آج موجود بھی نہیں ہیں۔ میرا ماننا یہی ہے کہ صرف عقل کی بنیاد پر الٰہیات سے متعلق موضوعات کو حل نہیں کیا جا سکتا ہے۔ اس پر اسلام اور قرآن سے مدد لینا ضروری ہے۔

امام علی کا توحید کے بارے میں ایک مشہور خطبہ ہے جو یہاں انگریزی میں پیسٹ کر رہا ہوں، اردو میں مجھے نیٹ پر نہیں ملا۔ اس میں ہماری اس گفتگو سے متعلق ایک جملہ ہے: . Forbidden is His delimitation (tahdid) to the penetrating acumen of sagacities, His description (takyif) to the piercing profundities of thought and His representation (taswir) to the searching probes of insight."

مکمل خطبہ درج ذیل ہے:

It was related by 'Ali ibn Musa Ar-Ridha’ (the eighth Imam) from the earlier Imams in succession that al-Husayn ibn 'Ali (the third Imam) spoke as follows: The Commander of the Faithful-upon whom be peace-addressed the people in the mosque at Kufa and said:

"Praise belongs to God, who did not originate from anything, nor did He bring what exists into being from anything.12 His beginninglessness is attested to by the temporality (huduth) of things, His power by the impotence with which He has branded them, and His everlastingness (dawam) by the annihilation (fana') which He has forced upon them. No place is empty of Him that He might be perceived through localization (ayniyyah), no object (shabah) is like Him that He might be described by quality (kayfiyyah), nor is He absent from anything that He might be known through situation (haythiyyah)."13

"He is distinct (muba'in) in attributes from all that He has originated, inaccessible to perception because of the changing essences He has created (in things),14 and outside of all domination (tasarruf) by changing states (halat) because of grandeur and tremendousness. Forbidden is His delimitation (tahdid) to the penetrating acumen of sagacities, His description (takyif) to the piercing profundities of thought and His representation (taswir) to the searching probes of insight."

"Because of His tremendousness places encompass Him not, because of His majesty measures guage Him not, and because of His grandeur standards judge Him not. Impossible is it for imaginations (awham) to fathom Him, understandings (afham) to comprehend Him or minds (adhhan) to imagine Him. Powers of reason (uqul) with lofty aspiration despair of contriving to comprehend Him, oceans of knowledge run dry without alluding to Him in depth,15 and the subtleties of disputants fall from loftiness to pettiness in describing His power."

"He is One (wahid), not in terms of number (adad); Everlasting (da'im), without duration (amad); Standing (qa'im), without supports (umud). He is not of a kind (jins) that (other) kinds should be on a par with Him, nor an object that objects should be similar to Him, nor like things that attributes should apply to Him. Powers of reason go astray in the waves of the current of perceiving Him, imaginations are bewildered at encompassing the mention of His beginninglessness, understandings are held back from becoming conscious of the description of His power, and minds are drowned in the depths of the heavens of His kingdom (malakut)."16

"He is Master over (giving) bounties, Inaccessible through Grandeur, and Sovereign over all things. Time (al-dahr) makes Him not old, nor does description encompass Him. Humbled before Him are the firmest of obduracies in the limits of their constancy, and submitted to Him are the most unshakeable of the cords in the extremity of their towering regions."1732

"Witness to His Lordship (rububiyyah) is the totality of kinds (al-ajnas, i.e. kinds of creatures), to His Power their incapacity, to His eternity (qidmah) their createdness (futur), and to His permanence (baqa') their passing into extinction (zawal). So they possess no place of refuge from His grasp (idrak) of them, no exit from His encompassing (ihatah) them, no way of veiling themselves from His enumeration (ihsa') of them and no way of avoiding His power over them.

Sufficient is the perfection of His making them18 as a sign (ayah), His compounding of their (natural) constitutions as a proof, the temporal origin (huduth) of their natures as (a reason for His) eternity, and the creation's laws governing them as a lesson.19 No limit is attributed to Him, no similitude struck for Him and nothing veiled from Him. High indeed is He exalted above the striking of similitudes and above created attributes!"

"And I testify that there is no god but He, having faith in His lordship and opposing whoso denies Him; and I testify that Muhammad is His servant and messenger, residing in the best lodging-place, having passed from the noblest of loins and immaculate wombs, extracted in lineage from the noblest of mines and in origin from the most excellent of plantations, and (derived) from the most inaccessible of summits and the most glorious roots, from the tree from which God fashioned His prophets and chose His trusted ones:20 (a tree) of excellent wood, harmonious stature, lofty branches, flourishing limbs, ripened fruit, (and) noble interior, implanted in generosity and cultivated in a sacred precinct.

There it put forth branches and fruit, became strong and unassailable, and then made him (the prophet Muhammad) tall and eminent, until God, the Mighty and Majestic, honored him with the Faithful Spirit,21 the Illuminating Light,22 and the Manifest Book.23 He subjected to him Buraq24 and the angels greeted him.25

By means of him He terrified the devils, overthrew the idols and the gods (who were) worshipped apart from Him. His prophet's Wont (sunnah) is integrity (rushd), his conduct (sirah) is justice and his decision is truth. He proclaimed that which was commanded by his Lord,26 and he delivered that with which he was charged27 until he made plain his mission through the profession of Unity and made manifest among the creatures that there is no god but God alone and that He has no associate; until His Oneness became pure and His lordship unmixed. God made manifest his argument through the profession of His Unity and He raised his degree with submission (al-islam). And God, the Mighty and Majestic, chose for His prophet what was with Him of repose, degree and means-upon him and upon his pure household be God's peace."

2. Via negativa
'Ali said, "Praise belongs to God, whose laudation is not rendered by speakers,28 whose bounties are not counted by reckoners,29 and whose rightfully due (haqq) is not discharged by those who strive. Grand aspirations perceive Him not and deep-diving perspicacities reach Him not.

His attributes (sifah) possess no determined limits (hadd mahdud), no existing description (na't mawjud), no fixed time (waqt madud) and no extended term (ajal mamdud). He originates the creatures by His power,30looses the winds by His mercy,31 and fastens the shaking of His earth with boulders."32

"The first step in religion is knowledge (marifah) of Him. The perfection of knowledge of Him is to confirm Him (tasdiq). The perfection of confirming Him is to profess His unity (tawhid). The perfection of professing His Unity is sincerity (ikhlas) towards Him.33 And the perfection of sincerity towards Him is to negate attributes (nafy al-sifat) from Him, because of the testimony of every attribute that it is not that which possesses the attribute (al-mawsuf) and the testimony of everything that possesses attributes that it is not the attribute."

So whoso describes God-glory be to Him-has given Him a comrade (i.e. the description). Whoso gives Him a comrade has declared Him to be two (tathniyah). Whoso declares Him to be two has divided Him. Whoso divides Him is ignorant of Him. (Whoso is ignorant of Him points to Him).34 Whoso points to Him has delimited Him. Whoso delimits Him has numbered Him. Whoso says, 'In what is He ?', has enclosed Him. Whoso says, 'On what is He ?', has excluded Him (from certain things)."

"He is a being (ka'in) not as the result of temporal origin (hadath), an existent (mawjud) not (having come) from nonexistence (adam). He is with everything, not through association (muqaranah); and He is other than everything, not through separation (muzayalah). He is active (fa'il), not in the sense of possessing movement and instruments. He was seeing when there was none of His creatures to be observed by Him. He was 'alone' (mutawahhid) when there was none with whom to be intimate and at whose loss to feel lonely."

"He originated creation and gave to it its beginning without employing deliberation, profiting from experience, occasioning movement (harakah, i.e. in Himself), or being disrupted by the cares of the soul (hamamah nafs). He delays things to their times,35 mends their discrepancies, implants (in them) their natural dispositions, and makes these (dispositions) adhere to their objects. He has knowledge of them before their beginning, encompasses their limits (hudud) and their end (intiha') and knows their relationships (qara'in) and aspects (ahna').
جزاک اللہ !!
 
آخری تدوین:
ان تمام امور (جزا سزا، جبر و اختیار) کا تعلق پوری کائنات اور اسکے نظام کے ساتھ جڑا ہوا ہے اور یہ اسی وقت حل ہوسکتے ہیں جب ہم پوری کائنات اور اسکے مربوط نظام کو اسکی تمام جزئیات، تفصیلات اور باریکیوں کے ساتھ جانتے ہوں،۔۔جب علم اور عقل اس درجے تک پہنچی ہوگی تب ہی ان سوالات کا علمی و عقلی جواب م ل سکتا ہے اور ہر بات جسٹیفائی ہوسکتی ہے۔۔۔چونکہ ہم انسانوں کو عام طور پر اس درجے کا علم اور عقل حاصل نہیں ہوتی، اسی لئے ایمان بالوحی کی ضرورت پڑتی ہے اور اسی بناء پر انبیاء و مرسلین و ربانین کی وحی۔ و الہام اور کشف و مشاہدے کی بنیاد پر بیان کی گئی باتون پر ایمان رکھنا چاہئیے۔۔۔:)
 

الشفاء

لائبریرین
ہماری ڈومین کی ابتداء جب ہوتی ہے تو پیدائش ہماری مرضی کے بغیر ہے، ہماری ڈومین جہاں ختم ہوتی ہے، وہ بھی ہمارے بس سے باہر ہے کہ کب مرنا ہے، کس گھر میں پیدا ہونا ہے، لڑکا یا لڑکی بن کر پیدا ہونا ہے، کس ملک میں پیدا ہونا ہے، رہنے سہنے کے کیا مواقع ملیں گے؟ تعلیم و تربیت کس نوعیت کی ہوگی، یہ سب جب ہمارے ہاتھ میں نہیں ہے تو پھر فری ول یا ارادے کی کیا اہمیت رہ جاتی ہے؟

بہترین اور جامع سوال ہے یہ۔۔۔
اس حقیر کی سمجھ کے مطابق اگر یہ سب اختیارات ہمارے ہی ہاتھ میں دے دیے جاتے، تو ظاہر ہے کہ ہم سب اپنے لئے بہترین چیز کا انتخاب کرتے۔پھر نہ آپ کو یہ سوال کرنے کی حاجت رہتی ، نہ ہم یہ لائنز لکھ رہے ہوتے۔۔۔ نہ آپ کو کوئی کام کرنے کی ضرورت ہوتی نہ ہمیں۔۔۔ نہ آپ کا کوئی باس ہوتا ، نہ آپ کسی کے باس ہوتے۔۔۔ سب اپنی مرضی سے ڈاکٹرز ، انجینئرز، پروفیسرز ، بیوروکریٹس ، وزراء ، صدر و وزیر اعظم ہوتے۔ نہ ہمارے جوتے گانٹھنے کے لئے کوئی موچی ہوتا، نہ روڈ صاف کرنے کو سُویپر۔۔۔اور اگر پیدا ہونے اور مرنے کا بھی اختیار دے دیا جاتا، جیسا کہ آپ نے کہا، تو پھر آپ اندازہ کر سکتے ہیں کہ اس دنیا کا کیا حال ہوتا۔۔۔:)

یہ سب اُس علیم و حکیم نے اپنی حکمت سے مقدر فرمایا ہے۔ اور اس میں کوئی چیز چھپا کر نہیں رکھی بلکہ کھول کھول کر بتا دیا کہ ہمارے درمیان ان دنیاوی نشیب و فراز کے ہونے میں کیا کیا حکمتیں ہیں۔ ارشاد ہوتا ہے کہ،


نَحْنُ قَسَمْنَا بَيْنَهُم مَّعِيشَتَهُمْ فِي الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَرَفَعْنَا بَعْضَهُمْ فَوْقَ بَعْضٍ دَرَجَاتٍ لِّيَتَّخِذَ بَعْضُهُم بَعْضًا سُخْرِيًّا وَرَحْمَتُ رَبِّكَ خَيْرٌ مِّمَّا يَجْمَعُونَ۔۔۔۔ سورۃ الزخرف۔ آیت 32۔۔۔

ہم ہی اِن کے درمیان دنیا کی اس زندگی میں ان کے (اسبابِ ) معیشت کو تقسیم کرتے ہیں اور ہم ہی ان میں سے بعض کو بعض پر مراتب میں بلند کرتے ہیں، تاکہ وہ ایک دوسرے سے کام لے سکیں۔۔۔


واللہ و رسولہ اعلم۔۔۔
 
انسان اگر اللہ کا بندہ ہے ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔ تو ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔
اس کی آزادی (فکری علمی عملی، سب) اللہ کے احکام کے تابع ہے۔

اور اگر وہ اللہ کا بندہ نہیں ہے ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔ تو ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔
جملہ مباحث بے کار ہیں!
 

نایاب

لائبریرین
اللہ ھو الصمد ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔ دم صابرے ولی ۔ ۔۔۔۔۔ میاں موج دا دریا ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔ کھولو رحم دی گلی
" وہ " تو بہت دور کی بات ہے ۔۔ اس کی حکمت کی حقیقت ہی کھل جائے اگر ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔
تو " وہ " اللہ کیونکر کہلائے ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔؟
وہ جس کا اثبات ہی نفی پر قائم ہے ۔ اس نے چاہا کہ جانا جاؤں سو یہ سب کھیل رچائی ۔
قسمت تقدیر ارادہ آزادی اور مجبوری " جسم میں قید روح حقیقی " ان کے بل پرکرے تماشا ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔
 
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